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4E D&D: The Stealth Rules and You

Update: Thanks to the folks on Circvs Maximvs and ENWorld for helping me clarify my position and/or change some of my verbiage.

Update 3 Jul 08: I wrote to Customer Service and updated the end of this post with their answer.

There is a big debate on Gleemax right now on the stealth skill rules in 4E D&D. As a person who is currently playing a Rogue in my weekly campaign, it’s important to me that I use the Stealth skill correctly. I’m going to give my take on the subject and you tell me what you think.

When can I use Stealth?

According to the PHB, you can use stealth as “[p]art of whatever action you are trying to perform stealthily.” Now, when you’re trying to be stealthy, “[u]nless a creature is distracted, you must have cover against or concealment from the creature to make a Stealth check.” “In combat, creatures are assumed to be paying attention in all directions.”

That seems to be pretty straightforward. If I have either cover or concealment from an enemy, and only if I have cover or concealment, I’m able to make a stealth check as part of a normal action (standard, move, or minor).

How do I know if the enemy sees me?

Well, that’s what perception is for. “No action required—either you notice something or you don’t. Your DM usually uses your passive Perception check result.” If you try to hide in combat, you make the check against the enemies passive perceptions. Some enemy’s may still see you. Some may not. If they don’t see you, you perform your action stealthily against them. If they can see you, you can’t perform your action stealthily against them.

What if I’m still hidden at the end of my turn?

What if you succeed and don’t do anything to give yourself away, such as attacking or yelling? What does the enemy do then? For that, let’s look in a different section of the PHB.

“On your turn, you can make an active Perception check as a minor action, comparing the result to the concealed creature’s last Stealth check.” So there it is. If you are still hiding come the enemy’s turn, they make a perception check as a minor action to try and see you.

Quick summary

On your turn:

Get cover.
Make a stealth check against the enemies passive perceptions.
If successful, perform your action stealthily.
If you fail, you don’t perform it stealthily.
If you don’t attack or yell and are still hidden at the end of your turn, the enemy makes a perception check as a minor action to find you on its turn.

To me, that seems pretty cut and dry. But then we get into more convoluted territory.

What constitutes “cover”?

Herein lies the rub. It’s pretty obvious that a wall, a tree, a large rock, a low wall, and things of that nature can all constitute cover. They’re easy to hide behind or around and, if you’re a rogue or ranged fighter, you can stick your head out and snipe the target. But what about your allies?

My allies?!

Yes, your allies. That’s the big debate on Gleemax. Do allies grant you cover? According to Wizards’ Customer Service, the answer is yes. Note – I know many people do not take a CSR’s word for gospel but for me, until eratta or a FAQ is printed, I trust the CSR as the “official” word of Wizards.

How?

That’s the biggest question; how? How can an ally, especially those who are smaller than you, provide you with cover enough to hide behind them? Honestly, if I were to think about this logically, my answer would be that it couldn’t happen. But this is a game where dragons exist and wizards shoot fireballs out of their fingertips, so I’m not going to try to apply modern day scientific logic to this question. Instead, I have to look at the rules. First, let’s look at the rules of cover.

Cover

Cover (-2 Penalty to Attack Rolls): The target is around a corner or protected by terrain.

Creatures and Cover: When you make a ranged attack against an enemy and other enemies are the way, your target has cover. Your allies never grant cover to your enemies, and neither allies nor enemies give cover against melee, close, or area attacks.

Determining Cover: To determine if a target has cover, choose a corner of a square you occupy (or a corner of your attack’s origin square) and trace imaginary lines from that corner to every corner of any one square the target occupies. If one or two of these lines are blocked by an obstacle or an enemy, the target has cover.

So if an enemy attacks you from a range, you have cover against them if an ally is between you and the enemy. Makes sense. That’s how it’s been since 3rd Edition. So if an enemy is firing at you from a distance, you can hide behind your friend and snipe the attacker stealthily. And if the enemy is making a melee attack on you, you don’t have cover against them. So no hiding from an enemy right next to you if you’re standing out in the open.

What about reach weapons?

From the PHB:

Reach: If a creature that has reach attacks through terrain that would grant cover if the target were in it, the target has cover. For example, even if you’re not in the same square as a small pillar, it gives you cover from the attack of an ogre on the other side of the pillar.

Allies are not terrain. It’s already been established that allies never grant cover against a melee attack. So allies do not grant cover versus creatures with reach and you cannot make a stealth check while behind them.

Another summary

If a person attacks you with a ranged weapon and there is an ally between you and the attacker, you can make a stealth check to hide behind your ally.
Beyond this you can’t make a stealth check to hide behind your ally.

But what if the person in the distance from whom I wish to hide does not have a ranged weapon and there is an ally between the target and myself?

That’s my sticking point. I really don’t know. The rules specify that when they make a ranged attack and you are behind cover, aka an ally in this case, you can make a stealth check to hide from them. But did the writers also intend this to mean if anyone could make a ranged attack on you and you are behind cover, you can make a stealth check? What if they’re not carrying a ranged weapon? These are the questions that keep me up at night. Note – Ok, not really but it sounds more dramatic that way.

Update to this: I wrote to Customer Service on 3 Jul 08 with following question:

If a person does not attack with a range weapon but is, say, 6 squares away, do you get cover against them if there’s an ally between you and the target? Mainly, I’m trying to figure out if you would be able to hide from them if they don’t actually make a ranged attack against you.

I received this response:

Hello. Yes, you can hide behind your allies even if you aren’t being attacked with a ranged attack.

Evan T.

There you go. If an enemy is in the distance, and there is an ally between you and the enemy, you are granted cover against said enemy.

Conclusion

I’ve tried my best to explain the stealth skill as I see it. I’m sure some of you have different ways of viewing it and I look forward to hearing about it. Hopefully, this will be of use to those who were fuzzy on stealth or are new to 4E D&D and want to know how it’s done. Please feel free to comment on this and to also offer suggestions on other aspects of the game you would like me to try and summarize.

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Posted in: 4E

7 Responses to “4E D&D: The Stealth Rules and You”

skade July 3rd, 2008 at 1:46 PM

So, perhaps I am simplifying things here too much, but if your allies granted you cover, would that not also mean that on a miss that there should be a chance that the missed shot hit the cover (the allied player) instead of simply missing? The whole point of cover after all is that something blocks the ranged attack, and while no one cares if a tree or low wall gets an arrow, I bet the wizard minds being a human shield for the rogue. By ruling that an ally can grant cover to other players it really seems to open up other problems. Also, even more simply, no one stands perfectly still in combat, so two medium creatures standing in a more or less straight line, while dodging, ducking, weaving, looking about, casting spells, drawing weapons, etc, they would not offer enough static positioning to effectively hide behind, probably not even a medium to small creature. Now, for diminutive or fine, sure. But a halfling ducking under my legs won’t hid him, and if someone misses shooting him I just got an arrow in my ass.

reveal July 3rd, 2008 at 1:54 PM

@skade – That hasn’t been an issue since 3.0. In 3.5 and 4, the target simply gains a bonus to AC because of cover and there is no chance of accidentally hitting said cover if you miss the target AC.

Nimblegrund July 4th, 2008 at 1:14 AM

Dealing with the accidentally shooting your ally mess was a big pain.

Anyway.

Sounds like about the only chink in the game logic is say…

(rogue) (defender) (minion with a longspear)

In this case, the rogue makes a stealth check. The minion cannot see the rogue, because the defender gives cover. Rogue is hidden from view.

Minion’s turn. He goes to attack with the longspear, which gives him reach. Because this is a melee attack, the rogue does not have cover, therefore is not hidden… so now he is visible? And after the attack, does the rogue go back to being hidden, since the minion no longer has reach, therefore the rogue has cover again, therefore the old stealth check stands?

reveal July 4th, 2008 at 3:44 AM

@Nimblegrund – Actually, that scenario wouldn’t play out that way. In 4E, longspear’s don’t have a range, so they’re not ranged weapons. They are strictly melee weapons and, as you said, allies don’t provide cover from melee attacks.

Rob July 7th, 2008 at 2:53 PM

I have a counterpoint that may help you sleep at night ; ). It simplifies things, although it requires that you ignore Evan T. over at Wizards.

“Creatures and Cover: When you make a ranged attack against an enemy and other enemies are the way, your target has cover. Your allies never grant cover to your enemies, and neither allies nor enemies give cover against melee, close, or area attacks.”

We know that allies never grant cover to your enemies, so we can assume that it’s not the fact that there’s a creature in the square that’s granting the cover … it’s something to do with the creature’s allegiance and intent. So a body standing there doesn’t actually grant cover, in and of itself.

Now notice that the rules only stipulate that your target has cover WHEN YOU MAKE A RANGED ATTACK. So it’s as if you, as the target, suddenly have a split second of cover and could make a stealth check … if only you were taking an action. But you’re not, so it’s moot for the purposes of combat advantage. As soon as the ranged attack is complete, your cover is also gone, and so is your opportunity to make a stealth check.

Another way of looking at it is that the ally, as a free action possible only when you’re being attacked at range, is choosing to give you cover against that precise attack.

In the game system, I think that keeps things much easier but doesn’t harm the rogue’s power level much. And if a rogue has a way to make a stealth check as an interrupt, or even a stealth check and an attack as an interrupt, they could absolutely get combat advantage for that interrupting attack … they deserve it, after all of that effort!

Thanks for your efforts toward an easy-to-understand interp.

reveal July 7th, 2008 at 3:20 PM

@Rob – Your capped text is exactly what I wrote to CS and asked about because that confused me. The text really should say “WHEN YOU COULD MAKE A RANGED ATTACK” instead, if CS is to believed.

I do think it would be cool if two players decided to play “combat tandem” and have a medium sized creature provide cover for a small creature. The tank sees the enemy using ranged attacks and says, “Hey! Halfling Rogue! Get behind me and attack those suckers! I’ll wait for them to get closer!”

That would be awesome.